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Sniper revamp!

sniper traps

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#1 ielieliel

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 02:45 AM

Hello, RRO Community!
 
I would just like to make a proposal as regards the trap system. I would like to make this clean and simple: Make the traps of Sniper class trigger only when an enemy steps on it!
 
There are 3 reasons why I proposed the same:

1. The ever changing play style of Rebirth RO - we cannot deny there were many improvements employed when the server went SE, and this includes the Battle Reports. Before the Battle Reports sprung into existence, WOE in Rebirthro was totally boring as compared nowadays. Today, WoE does not only include fast breaking, but also encourages every guild out there to showcase their skills when it comes to group play. It is apparent that most guilds enjoy the Battle Reports because it shows the list of people who have the highest kills and lowest deaths. Further, this not only shows how the player plays very well but it also reflects how the whole guild performs; the standing of every member reflects the performance of the whole guild! So, I strongly assert that if we could make a revamp on the traps of the Sniper class, it could make a significant difference.
2. How the traps work are obsolete! - It is obvious that the traps are like double edged sword -- it can trap an ally or an enemy. This shouldn't be the case! Due to the fact that the game style shifts from an old one to a new one, we can't help but to adjust to the current status quo. I am suggesting that the traps should only be activated when an enemy steps on it because the traps WILL PLAY A MAJOR ROLE ON HOW A GUILD STACK SHOULD BE PROTECTED, and to make GvG as well interesting and enjoyable.
Imagine a guild stack with Lord Knights in it, and the GL orders the LKs to attack the enemy. This cannot be allowed because the very same traps that are used to protect the stack will be activated by the same members whom should be protected. Quite irrational, right?
3. Let this be a change that would make GVG in RRO very interesting and fun! - of course, this shouldn't be left out, should it? As an old player, I have seen how RRO evolved from the way it was before until today. I am thankful that I am part of the RRO community! Having said that, I would like to contribute to better the game, and attract potential players to the community. smile emoticon I strongly assert that should this proposal be approved, it will encourage the players to play GvG efficiently! Of course, other players would be attracted as well to play in this server because of the GvG system!
 
 smile emoticon
Thanks very much!
‪#‎respect‬
 
P.S. This could make a start! Maybe, if Loki is ready, we can also consider making the traps invisible to the enemy as well :) of course, a wouldn't be a trap would it if they are seen by the enemy! It's possible that the same would be detected by skills such as detect, sight, or ruwach (it depends on the skill description, though), and items such as box of sunlight and Maya Purple Card :)


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#2 Xero

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 01:25 PM

I think this is an interesting idea. However, I would like to hear players opinions on how this would help/deter them, Potential threatening scenarios, if any. Please discuss

 

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#3 Candidate

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 01:35 PM

Wouldnt it be abused then?

spamming traps all the way, especially near entrance because your own guild member can go through it while opponents cant, especially during the last minute charge.

If it must be implemented, i suggest having party members immune to own trap, rather than the whole guild.


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#4 Kaz

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 02:31 PM

I believe the trap suggestion's been discussed multiple times in the past decade and each time it was denied on basis of teamplay and concerns for abuse. I, as a sniper, would say go whip your guildmates more since you're the one in charge of traps and if they get stuck in it it's their own fault. Let them die.

 

 

 

That said give us throw traps cause that'd be fun. =D


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#5 Selome

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 03:40 PM

would it be possible to make it so that allies would still trigger the full trap but not consume itself? Kaz has a point that it has huge potential for abuse in last minute castle rushes. but if it was possible to make it so allies still get stuck but not consume the trap itself it would be somewhat balanced?

just a random potentially stupid idea.


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#6 Morpheus

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 04:52 PM

Looking at what Kaz said and then looking at renewal mechanics, would it not be beneficial just to give traps some sort of extended range? I believe that friendly fire is a huge part of trapping in general so I wouldn't see that as something to limit, but I think we can all think of other alternatives to maybe do things to snipers?


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#7 Kaz

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Posted 11 January 2016 - 11:59 PM

Looking at what Kaz said and then looking at renewal mechanics, would it not be beneficial just to give traps some sort of extended range? I believe that friendly fire is a huge part of trapping in general so I wouldn't see that as something to limit, but I think we can all think of other alternatives to maybe do things to snipers?

Just remembered something I should add to this.

 

Ever since the new client, the run-trap method became extremely difficult for snipers to do. This is probably hard coded by Hercules about how characters are recorded when moving cells compared to our pre-SE client (sakray?) - Hercules saves our character state in the full cells, while pre-SE allowed half-cells or characters to occupy two cells. So even a 1 cell increase in range would be a tremendous help. 


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#8 Selome

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 01:10 AM

how about giving trappers a new card/equip that gives traps 3 cell range but increases the delay of the skill  to about 2 seconds?. sacrificing speed for range seems a decent trade off. something from the new renewal would sound like a possible idea? just a though.


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#9 o0 Crimson 0o

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 01:41 AM

P.S. This could make a start! Maybe, if Loki is ready, we can also consider making the traps invisible to the enemy as well :) of course, a wouldn't be a trap would it if they are seen by the enemy! It's possible that the same would be detected by skills such as detect, sight, or ruwach (it depends on the skill description, though), and items such as box of sunlight and Maya Purple Card :)

^


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#10 Morpheus

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 03:55 AM

Just remembered something I should add to this.

 

Ever since the new client, the run-trap method became extremely difficult for snipers to do. This is probably hard coded by Hercules about how characters are recorded when moving cells compared to our pre-SE client (sakray?) - Hercules saves our character state in the full cells, while pre-SE allowed half-cells or characters to occupy two cells. So even a 1 cell increase in range would be a tremendous help. 

I can understand that. So the skill that made me think of trap range was this: http://ratemyserver....k_search=Search

 

I'll do some testing on Thor and see if that applies to all traps or just the Ranger ones, but I think that could be a possible avenue to explore to make trapping more... viable, I guess? 


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#11 Wizard of Seraphym

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 12:19 AM

Nope.  No.  Guardians not getting stuck to traps is A-OK, but your guildies having trap immunity too is too much.

Trapping is as much about communication and planning as it is about stopping your opponents.

The cell range increase is worth looking into, though.

Maybe making a card that gives players access to Trap Research lv 1?  That'd be way cool.

 

I do concede that I haven't been active again long enough to really grok all of the changes, but I was pretty sure the lack of trapping and holding castles had to do with the, from what I can tell, downsizing of guilds.  I couldn't say for sure though- I'm not involved in a very large guild, so maybe I just don't really have the perspective to see the big clashes or advanced tactics I knew during previous WoEs.


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#12 Xero

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 01:27 AM

Just remembered something I should add to this.

 

Ever since the new client, the run-trap method became extremely difficult for snipers to do. This is probably hard coded by Hercules about how characters are recorded when moving cells compared to our pre-SE client (sakray?) - Hercules saves our character state in the full cells, while pre-SE allowed half-cells or characters to occupy two cells. So even a 1 cell increase in range would be a tremendous help. 

 

 

how about giving trappers a new card/equip that gives traps 3 cell range but increases the delay of the skill  to about 2 seconds?. sacrificing speed for range seems a decent trade off. something from the new renewal would sound like a possible idea? just a though.

 

The idea of extending the range of trap is interesting, granted i would like it to be only allowed if there are no dead cells between the target placing and the sniper or from higher / lower plane. The reason being our woe has varied pockets of spaces, where already you can place a trap from a higher plane (like yesnelph entrance choke point or Neus empreium room), getting a higher range in those scenarios is bit too much. I know dead cells part is implementable but to stop it working from a higher/lower plane, i am not sure if it is plausible.


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#13 Morpheus

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 03:14 AM

The idea of extending the range of trap is interesting, granted i would like it to be only allowed if there are no dead cells between the target placing and the sniper or from higher / lower plane. The reason being our woe has varied pockets of spaces, where already you can place a trap from a higher plane (like yesnelph entrance choke point or Neus empreium room), getting a higher range in those scenarios is bit too much. I know dead cells part is implementable but to stop it working from a higher/lower plane, i am not sure if it is plausible.

To respond to you, my friend, from what I have seen of RO mechanics, heights work as cells, though I'm not sure the exact range, so you will have to show me the specific emp rooms and we can take a look together and see if 1 cell additional range is too much because of those scenarios.


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#14 Wizard of Seraphym

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 05:25 AM

If I remember correctly, Disney Castle's entrance, Holy Shadow's entrance, and Fadgrighdgh entrance all have parapets you can try this on.

I think the usefulness of this trick is way too narrow unless you extend trap range to like 3 or 4 cells. Good to know, and usable in specific circumstances, but a 1 cell increase wouldnt break trapping. Probably not a 2 cell increase either, since that's only, I believe, a max placement of 3 traps per row, with a very limited number of rows to work with anyway.

That said, its up to your research to decide.  Even if I'm wrong, I'd love to hear the results.


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#15 Selome

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 04:06 PM

disney castle????????


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#16 Wizard of Seraphym

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Posted 20 January 2016 - 04:14 AM

Neuschwanstein.  Disney castle is based off of the real life castle by the same name


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#17 arieftarmizi

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 12:28 AM

Traps should only be visible to the caster!!!

It is a trap anyway, why others can see it....xD


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#18 Selome

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 02:41 AM

Traps should only be visible to the caster!!!

It is a trap anyway, why others can see it....xD

Cause allies not being to see it would be disastrous . Enemies not being able to see it would be broken as fuk.


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#19 Wizard of Seraphym

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 06:26 AM

Until last year or so, traps werent visible by allies unless you saw them being placed. That was a pretty good change tbh, though it sounds like enemies can see traps 100% of the time now too.

I kind of like the vanilla concept that theyre hidden unless a sight type move is used, but I've never seen that properly implemented anywhere
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#20 Selome

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Posted 21 January 2016 - 12:41 PM

i personally find if enemies cant see trap it gives too much power to guilds who want to hostage. a alt sniper would be much more effective all of a sudden. Some guilds even use allied slave guilds with their alt trappers just to trap a castle and ecall somewhere else. it feels underhanded imo.


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