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Suggestion flamel card


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#1 Icyen3

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 07:06 PM

Flamel emul card: chance to cast lvl 1 FCP when hit by close ranged attacks, and gives 20crit and an additional 20crit if your str is above 110.

 

Since strip is almost always used by classes that don't hit but only tank it doesn't make much sense to let it proc when you are hit. You will most likely get stripped before the card ever procs. On top of that judging by the crit you get from it, I assume it's made for dps classes so on top of that you're probably also out of health before it procs.

 

Suggestion: Make it cast FCP when you are dealing hits instead of taking them.


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#2 Luxuri

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 09:51 PM

Deux discussions!


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#3 titainus

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 09:14 AM

Nope, I disagree. It should be based on damage procing on you. if you are able to get it when you are doing damage, it is way too favorable in DPS classes (if you do wana do it this way, make the chance even lower). Since this is like any other buff card (like high priest for assumptio, punk card for quagmire etc) it should proc only when you are getting damaged.


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#4 Icyen3

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 10:06 AM

Nope, I disagree. It should be based on damage procing on you. if you are able to get it when you are doing damage, it is way too favorable in DPS classes (if you do wana do it this way, make the chance even lower). Since this is like any other buff card (like high priest for assumptio, punk card for quagmire etc) it should proc only when you are getting damaged.

 

I fail to see how this is way to favourable for DPS classes, there's very few instances you can't rely on FCP from an alt creator meaning this card has very limited use in the first place. To make it more usefull I think making it proc on dealing dmg can give this card a more usefull purpose. 

 

Your point about lowering the chance is a good one. I have no idea what the chance is I agree if you change it to proc on dealing dmg the chance of it procing should also be considered.


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#5 Candidate

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 10:50 AM

I fail to see how this is way to favourable for DPS classes, there's very few instances you can't rely on FCP from an alt creator meaning this card has very limited use in the first place. To make it more usefull I think making it proc on dealing dmg can give this card a more usefull purpose. 

 

Your point about lowering the chance is a good one. I have no idea what the chance is I agree if you chance it to proc on dealing dmg the chance of it procing should also be considered.

 

I would say when damaged.

Simply because you dont see HW going around and hitting others, right?

they also need fcp, and by changing to while hitting, you are excluding those magic classes (HW,HP,Ninja, etc).

 

IMO, i think we should change

chance to cast lvl 1 FCP when hit by close ranged attacks,

close ranged attack to all physical attack.

 

 

i believe that changing it to physical attack would make this card more useful-

as jobs who strip others (sounds so wrong, lol) are stalkers (mostly bow stalkers), ranged chars and tankers.

 

 

I fail to see how this is way to favourable for DPS classes, there's very few instances you can't rely on FCP from an alt creator meaning this card has very limited use in the first place. To make it more usefull I think making it proc on dealing dmg can give this card a more usefull purpose. 

 

Your point about lowering the chance is a good one. I have no idea what the chance is I agree if you change it to proc on dealing dmg the chance of it procing should also be considered.

 

The reason i mention about this is because another function of fcp is actually to remove debuffs (from stripped status).

There is no way there is an alt creo following you everywhere.

Hence, to counter those ranged strippers, i propose changing it's activation to : when hit by all physical damage.


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#6 Icyen3

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 11:56 AM

I would say when damaged.

Simply because you dont see HW going around and hitting others, right?

they also need fcp, and by changing to while hitting, you are excluding those magic classes (HW,HP,Ninja, etc).

 

IMO, i think we should change

chance to cast lvl 1 FCP when hit by close ranged attacks,

close ranged attack to all physical attack.

 

 

i believe that changing it to physical attack would make this card more useful-

as jobs who strip others (sounds so wrong, lol) are stalkers (mostly bow stalkers), ranged chars and tankers.

 

 

 

The reason i mention about this is because another function of fcp is actually to remove debuffs (from stripped status).

There is no way there is an alt creo following you everywhere.

Hence, to counter those ranged strippers, i propose changing it's activation to : when hit by all physical damage.

 

I didn't say it should proc on melee dmg only I said it sould proc when dealing dmg (in general) so mage dmg included. As you mention when you make the card proc on when getting hit this card will probably only be used as you mentioned to "unstrip"  yourself after you've been stripped. I think it's more interesting to make it so that when you deal dmg to a stalker a stalker can't simply jump on you and strip you because let's face it, no stalker is going to hit dot you so you'll get stripped before it procs 99% of the time.


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Posted 21 March 2015 - 12:04 PM

I didn't say it should proc on melee dmg only I said it sould proc when dealing dmg (in general) so mage dmg included. As you mention when you make the card proc on when getting hit this card will probably only be used as you mentioned to "unstrip"  yourself after you've been stripped. I think it's more interesting to make it so that when you deal dmg to a stalker a stalker can't simply jump on you and strip you because let's face it, no stalker is going to hit dot you so you'll get stripped before it procs 99% of the time.

 

But still, i have to agree with defenus.

Buffs card should only proc when getting damaged.

Putting HW aside, there are also jobs that only support- or dont hit as much.

HP for eg, or SL.


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#8 Icyen3

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 12:10 PM

But still, i have to agree with defenus.

Buffs card should only proc when getting damaged.

Putting HW aside, there are also jobs that only support- or dont hit as much.

HP for eg, or SL.

These classes will get stripped before the card procs anyways so that's why I think this card will find almost zero use in the current way.


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#9 titainus

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 05:13 PM

I would say when damaged.

Simply because you dont see HW going around and hitting others, right?

they also need fcp, and by changing to while hitting, you are excluding those magic classes (HW,HP,Ninja, etc).

 

IMO, i think we should change

chance to cast lvl 1 FCP when hit by close ranged attacks,

close ranged attack to all physical attack.

 

 

i believe that changing it to physical attack would make this card more useful-

as jobs who strip others (sounds so wrong, lol) are stalkers (mostly bow stalkers), ranged chars and tankers.

 

 

 

The reason i mention about this is because another function of fcp is actually to remove debuffs (from stripped status).

There is no way there is an alt creo following you everywhere.

Hence, to counter those ranged strippers, i propose changing it's activation to : when hit by all physical damage.

 

Just saying dont do all physical attacks - on a pally thts very very advantageous. I understand where ur coming from for wizzies and ranged clases who need to maintain distance, but if u make all physical attacks - on a pally for example - i ll get fcped every second in woe situations rushing through a castle. 

 

if you are indeed going to make it all physical attacks- make sure there is some penalties for tanky classes (pally/lk etc.)


These classes will get stripped before the card procs anyways so that's why I think this card will find almost zero use in the current way.

 

i do not agree at all with you saying current way the card tht is - it is useless. i ve been using it for 3 woes and it worked jus super fine


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#10 medan1945

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 06:02 PM

If i may add my opinion to the discussion,
- i'd like this fcp to proceed when getting damaged (i mean all kind of damage magic/physic), hey, every1 knows hw love stripping of our shield!
-it should get some delay before it can be activated after the 1st cast, the time must be random though

Well, thats my opinion :/

Ps: i forgot, most stripper use long range atk why bother fcp from close ranged atk? (Most not All ty)
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Posted 21 March 2015 - 07:36 PM

Just saying dont do all physical attacks - on a pally thts very very advantageous. I understand where ur coming from for wizzies and ranged clases who need to maintain distance, but if u make all physical attacks - on a pally for example - i ll get fcped every second in woe situations rushing through a castle. 

 

if you are indeed going to make it all physical attacks- make sure there is some penalties for tanky classes (pally/lk etc.)


 

i do not agree at all with you saying current way the card tht is - it is useless. i ve been using it for 3 woes and it worked jus super fine

Hmm.

That's true.

This is confusing @.@

 

Those tanky classes would have too much advantageous.

I think suggestion by 1945 is a good one tho.

Giving it delay before next proc.

That way, it wont proc too much.

 

FCP lv 1 lasts for 120s.

Perhaps making the delay about 150s, so there is a bit of a gap time.

 

 

If i may add my opinion to the discussion,
- i'd like this fcp to proceed when getting damaged (i mean all kind of damage magic/physic), hey, every1 knows hw love stripping of our shield!
-it should get some delay before it can be activated after the 1st cast, the time must be random though

Well, thats my opinion :/

Ps: i forgot, most stripper use long range atk why bother fcp from close ranged atk? (Most not All ty)


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#12 Icyen3

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 08:19 PM

 

i do not agree at all with you saying current way the card tht is - it is useless. i ve been using it for 3 woes and it worked jus super fine

There's two different sides to this.

 

Your point of view is from WoE, where I've already disregarded this card in WoE because you can just FCP yourself with an alt making this card pretty useless in WoE in my opinion.

 

My point of view is from places where you don't have an alt to FCP you, for example BG and due to limited amouth of players in this case I'm certain that you will get stripped before this card procs most of the time (if not all) making this card pretty useles as of now in these scenarios.


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#13 Condom by-product.

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 04:38 AM

As a gunslinger, I love to disarm other players so it would be good to have a protection against ranged strippers. XD


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#14 titainus

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 08:30 AM

There's two different sides to this.

 

Your point of view is from WoE, where I've already disregarded this card in WoE because you can just FCP yourself with an alt making this card pretty useless in WoE in my opinion.

 

My point of view is from places where you don't have an alt to FCP you, for example BG and due to limited amouth of players in this case I'm certain that you will get stripped before this card procs most of the time (if not all) making this card pretty useles as of now in these scenarios.

 

again there are going to be situations where cards are not going be useful! like lk card against a sinx... so would u call that useless too? i am just saying you are picking specific situations . 

 

Repeating again - > self buff cards have for ages have been procing only based on damage received not hit. because letting you hit and procing thereafter someone gives you a certain choice, say you hit a pally (barehanded so very little reflect) jus to get fcp on yourself. That choice should not exist, so it should stay when getting damaged.


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#15 Icyen3

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:50 AM

again there are going to be situations where cards are not going be useful! like lk card against a sinx... so would u call that useless too? i am just saying you are picking specific situations . 

 

Repeating again - > self buff cards have for ages have been procing only based on damage received not hit. because letting you hit and procing thereafter someone gives you a certain choice, say you hit a pally (barehanded so very little reflect) jus to get fcp on yourself. That choice should not exist, so it should stay when getting damaged.

I'm not picking a specific situation. I'm showing you that this card currently has no good situation of use. It's almost useless in WoE because you can just FCP yourself with an alt. And outside WoE this card will not do much either because you will get stripped before the card procs. 

 

Simply because strip skills (full strip/disarm) deal a very limited amouth of hits if any at all, making the odds that this card procs before you get stripped almost zero. Now if you turn this card around to proc on dealing hits, you can maybe get this card to proc before the enemy strips you.

 

Just because something has always been done a certain way does not mean it should be continued this way. You should consider the pros and the cons and base a dicision on that. Not simple because "but we always have done it this way so let's keep doing it this way"  that's the most stupid way to prevent innovation.


As a gunslinger, I love to disarm other players so it would be good to have a protection against ranged strippers. XD

Even if you change the current version of the card to proc on getting hit by ranged hits. I'm pretty sure the odds of disarm to proc the card before it strips you are almost non excistant because disarm only deals a single hit every attempt (full strip beeing even more unlikely because it doesn't even deal dmg at all).


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#16 titainus

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 11:33 AM

Simply because strip skills (full strip/disarm) deal a very limited amouth of hits if any at all, making the odds that this card procs before you get stripped almost zero. Now if you turn this card around to proc on dealing hits, you can maybe get this card to proc before the enemy strips you.

 

i dont see this card as a counter for full strip by stalkers and rightly so. If you want to counter that full strip get fcp >.> i see this card is for those stripping/breaking with wikinbe tres, metaling,disarm and WS. IF this was meant to be the way u say it is, i.e to counter full strip, it should say gives u the skill to fcp urself, bar that it is a chance for u to survive better. survive being the key word.

 

if u do get fullstripped, getting fcped proced from damage u receive dispels that!! (this situation was not possible before, that in itself is a great use for the card). 


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#17 Candidate

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 12:59 PM

I'm not picking a specific situation. I'm showing you that this card currently has no good situation of use. It's almost useless in WoE because you can just FCP yourself with an alt. And outside WoE this card will not do much either because you will get stripped before the card procs. 

 

Simply because strip skills (full strip/disarm) deal a very limited amouth of hits if any at all, making the odds that this card procs before you get stripped almost zero. Now if you turn this card around to proc on dealing hits, you can maybe get this card to proc before the enemy strips you.

 

You have to know that not everyone has (or can afford) an alt creo to keep FCPing.

 

Beside, this card is also useful outside WOE and BG.

For example, in bio4, kraken lair,  sealed shrine quest, HOA etc where those mobs break your weapon and/or strip you.

They dont cast it as often,so i can depend on flamel card to fcp me before it happened, or to dispel it after it happens.


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#18 Luxuri

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 05:19 PM

To be honest, I find it weird that you'd post a suggestion to buff a particular mob card, when there are hundreds of other mob cards out there that are even more useless. Perhaps it's because you feel as it is a new item, it has to be cutting edge - which isn't true, or that it has FCP as its effect - which may or may not be unique (I can't remember every card's effect), but you feel you would like more useability out of it.

 

As it is, I feel the card is fine the way it is and does not require a buff. RE: your suggestion to change it to buff when attacking, I feel it's these sort of subtle, albeit paradigm shifting, changes that open the gates for further OP cards to come through. As it is, I personally hold a standard that all items that I make hold by, one being that defensive buffs auto-cast when attacked (mostly) and offensive buffs auto-cast when attacking (mostly). Of course, there are exceptions to these rules, however, I feel it is not bad to have these restrictions on new gear.


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#19 Icyen3

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 06:03 PM

To be honest, I find it weird that you'd post a suggestion to buff a particular mob card, when there are hundreds of other mob cards out there that are even more useless. Perhaps it's because you feel as it is a new item, it has to be cutting edge - which isn't true, or that it has FCP as its effect - which may or may not be unique (I can't remember every card's effect), but you feel you would like more useability out of it.

 

As it is, I feel the card is fine the way it is and does not require a buff. RE: your suggestion to change it to buff when attacking, I feel it's these sort of subtle, albeit paradigm shifting, changes that open the gates for further OP cards to come through. As it is, I personally hold a standard that all items that I make hold by, one being that defensive buffs auto-cast when attacked (mostly) and offensive buffs auto-cast when attacking (mostly). Of course, there are exceptions to these rules, however, I feel it is not bad to have these restrictions on new gear.

Let me give you an example first before I explain why this specific card.

 

A sniper is countered by errende ebecce card or a champion by the safety wall ring (forgot the name) however both these items are a "low" percentage to proc so it's a chance process so this gives the player a chance to survive. (other examples beeing detale card or maya card)

 

The reason I posted for this specific mob card is because when I read this card I was like, yay finally a way that gives dps classes a chance to counter full strip or disarm without having to switch their entire loadout to unstrippable gear that is hard to come by (or spend tons of money of FCP scrolls). Then realised, oh wait disarm is a single hit and full strip doesn't hit at all so this card offers nothing in that regard. So I thought I'll make a suggestion to see if it was possible to give dps classes an option to counter strip skills but judging by the feedback I guess there is no interest for that.


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#20 Selome

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:56 AM

i would say increase the chance but instead of giving it fcp. give it chemical protection(the alchemist skill ) like say 10% chance to cast lvl 2-3 any cp skill (shield/helm/armor/weapon/headgear)


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