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Suggestion Thief Crossbow [4]


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#1 Icyen3

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 06:49 PM

Thief crossbow [4]: increase dmg of double straving depending on refine rate.

 

This stalker exclusive weapon I just don't agree with in the slightest. A weapon that has the highest dps for ranged classes that is stalker exclusive? I thought sniper was supposed to be the highest DPS ranged class. Stalker is so freaking versatile already (can strip/copy skill/chase walk/walk while hiding) and now this class gets the highest dps bow. Meanwhile half the skills that sniper has are still useless (INT scaling on most traps? lol) and the only reason people still play sniper in PvP is because of ankle snare. 

 

Here you have a very immobile class and a very mobile class and we give the highets dps weapon to the mobile class...speaking about balance...*cough*

 

I think making this weapon 3 slot is fair. I'd rather see this bow be compatible for snipers but it beeing a "thief crossbow"  it doesn't make a lot of sense to make it equippable for snipers.


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#2 Luxuri

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 09:50 PM

Une discussion!


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#3 Stolen Syn

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 10:01 PM

are you unaware that Giant Crossbow [3] exists? or...?


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#4 Gab

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 11:01 PM

I asked someone who has this thiefbow[4] to test some damage on me, and it's not even that impressive. (He's fully geared and the bow was +7)

 

I cant help but think this suggestion has something under the table since you and your bro has tons of Spectral Bows[4] for being the only persons to camp Alde HOA.

 

With the implementation of this bow with only 4 points lower as for base damage compared to spec bow, stalkers being able to use it, spec bow having an auto cast skill of 10% charge arrow-----stalkers will now prefer using thiefbow over specbow---pvp and breaking which will result to your efforts going down to waste.

Just some of my thoughts . :)


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#5 Stolen Syn

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Posted 20 March 2015 - 11:11 PM

I asked someone who has this thiefbow[4] to test some damage on me, and it's not even that impressive. (He's fully geared and the bow was +7)

 

I cant help but think this suggestion has something under the table since you and your bro has tons of Spectral Bows[4] for being the only persons to camp Alde HOA.

 

With the implementation of this bow with only 4 points lower as for base damage compared to spec bow, stalkers being able to use it, spec bow having an auto cast skill of 10% charge arrow-----stalkers will now prefer using thiefbow over specbow---pvp and breaking which will result to your efforts going down to waste.

Just some of my thoughts . :)

they've got the same break time fyi.

 

spec bow is pref due to 1 weight and the lack of sprite imo.


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#6 Jackiee

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 02:46 AM

Tested +10 Thief Crossbow to +10 Spectral Bow, heres what I got.

 

+10 Thief Crossbow (not carded) : 100 dmg more on Double Strafing (wow) 100 dmg less on DPS (Point Click)

 

+10 Spectral Bow (not carded) : 100 dmg less on Double Strafing, 100 dmg more on DPS (Point Click).

 

Not really a problem with it if you ask me. Sniper has true sight, something which stalker dosen't, which still gives sniper the upper damage advantage.


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#7 Gab

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 04:23 AM

they've got the same break time fyi.

 

spec bow is pref due to 1 weight and the lack of sprite imo.

thought so. but i didnt think it'd be the same since every now and then that 10% arrow charge procs.  since you've mentioned theyre the same, it will all come down to which one's the cheaper one which is obviously going to be the thiefbow. Day after the implementation of the quest, i've already seen a few people selling them in pront...aaaaaannnnnd honestly i think this is what this suggestion is all about.


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#8 ADCervano

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 04:25 AM

leave it as it is, I'm pretty sure you have an ulterior motive when thief crossbow came into play which rivals spectral bows, which you conveniently control in my own opinion. I would have agreed on the balancing suggestion if this didn't came from you personally. If this suggestion pushes through, I believe this would benefit only a few people like yourself personally. I've also seen a lot of spectral bows being sold for cheap lately, i guess people are getting wiser don't you think?


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#9 Zedie

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 05:04 AM

There's no "I thought sniper is supposed to be the highest DPS ranged class", Lol.
There's no rules like such, Stop assuming.
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#10 sther2

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 05:29 AM

I asked someone who has this thiefbow[4] to test some damage on me, and it's not even that impressive. (He's fully geared and the bow was +7)

 

I cant help but think this suggestion has something under the table since you and your bro has tons of Spectral Bows[4] for being the only persons to camp Alde HOA.

 

With the implementation of this bow with only 4 points lower as for base damage compared to spec bow, stalkers being able to use it, spec bow having an auto cast skill of 10% charge arrow-----stalkers will now prefer using thiefbow over specbow---pvp and breaking which will result to your efforts going down to waste.

Just some of my thoughts . :)

nice catch


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#11 Candidate

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 06:18 AM

Thief crossbow [4]: increase dmg of double straving depending on refine rate.

 

This stalker exclusive weapon I just don't agree with in the slightest. A weapon that has the highest dps for ranged classes that is stalker exclusive? I thought sniper was supposed to be the highest DPS ranged class. Stalker is so freaking versatile already (can strip/copy skill/chase walk/walk while hiding) and now this class gets the highest dps bow. Meanwhile half the skills that sniper has are still useless (INT scaling on most traps? lol) and the only reason people still play sniper in PvP is because of ankle snare. 

 

Here you have a very immobile class and a very mobile class and we give the highets dps weapon to the mobile class...speaking about balance...*cough*

 

I think making this weapon 3 slot is fair. I'd rather see this bow be compatible for snipers but it beeing a "thief crossbow"  it doesn't make a lot of sense to make it equippable for snipers.

Yup.

As it was mentioned.

There is giant crossbow for sniper class.

With there true sight (20% dmg) , the dmg should be higher than spectral itself.

Not to mention that this bow has higher atk that spectral/ thief crossbow itself.

 

Thief crossbow is good as it is.

If u really have a problem with stalker being better than other classes, then, you would have complained a long time ago about BW.

BW made stalker a lot better than ninja,or even HW for that matter (mobility issue)

But no one complained, why? simply because Stalker has their disadvantages too.


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#12 Koga Misa

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 08:11 AM

 

I cant help but think this suggestion has something under the table since you and your bro has tons of Spectral Bows[4] for being the only persons to camp Alde HOA.

 

 

 

Ooops! Very nice catch indeed. He wants the thief crossbow nerfed yet didn't mention the comparison between this and another weapon especially spectral bow. This suggestion is absurd IMO because there is no test or calculation whatsoever. Why did lux even put this in suggestion


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#13 Icyen3

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 09:58 AM

are you unaware that Giant Crossbow [3] exists? or...?

 

That bow has 3 slots and not 4 but now that I think about it, giving giant crossbow 4 slots would be a good balance suggestion in my opinion.

 

 

I cant help but think this suggestion has something under the table since you and your bro has tons of Spectral Bows[4] for being the only persons to camp Alde HOA.

 

leave it as it is, I'm pretty sure you have an ulterior motive when thief crossbow came into play which rivals spectral bows, which you conveniently control in my own opinion. I would have agreed on the balancing suggestion if this didn't came from you personally. If this suggestion pushes through, I believe this would benefit only a few people like yourself personally. I've also seen a lot of spectral bows being sold for cheap lately, i guess people are getting wiser don't you think?

 

If it was within my own purpose I wouldn't even make this post with this forum account but just make a new forum account, then again that's not the purpose of this post.

 

There's no "I thought sniper is supposed to be the highest DPS ranged class", Lol.
There's no rules like such, Stop assuming.

 

So if sniper is not supposed to be maxed dps ranged class than what is sniper for, ankle snares only? My assumption is based on balance. One class is more versatile and mobile than the other so from a balance point of view the more immobile class should have higher dps to make up for the lack of mobility.

 

 

 

Thief crossbow is good as it is.

If u really have a problem with stalker being better than other classes, then, you would have complained a long time ago about BW.

BW made stalker a lot better than ninja,or even HW for that matter (mobility issue)

But no one complained, why? simply because Stalker has their disadvantages too.

 

Well in my opinion stalker is an unbalanced class but that was not my point to discuss here.

 

 

Ooops! Very nice catch indeed. He wants the thief crossbow nerfed yet didn't mention the comparison between this and another weapon especially spectral bow. This suggestion is absurd IMO because there is no test or calculation whatsoever. Why did lux even put this in suggestion

 

I went with this suggestion based on the information supplied by luxuri's maint. I made it thinking thief crossbow has more dps because of the extra DS damage over the 4 atk you trade in compared to spectral bow. But apparantly the DS dmg increase on refine is not that high.

 

But yeah coming back to Jake's point buffing the giant crossbow to 4 slots would be a beter suggestion.


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#14 ADCervano

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 05:36 PM

if buffing giant crossbow seems like a better suggestion, then go make another suggestion thread which supports that, which is really not the main purpose here I believe. if you want balance, nerfing a specific item which complicates things in regards to you camping HOA alde is not the way to go, it seemed obvious from the get-go that was your main purpose anyways.

 

If you really want to balance classes, why not start with the root cause, yet you chose to pinpoint a certain newly obtainable alternative to spectral bows, which you personally have a personal interest to. That being said I believe, personal gain > balance is more pushed on this thread. Thanks


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#15 Candidate

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 07:38 PM

 

That bow has 3 slots and not 4 but now that I think about it, giving giant crossbow 4 slots would be a good balance suggestion in my opinion.

 

But yeah coming back to Jake's point buffing the giant crossbow to 4 slots would be a better suggestion.

 

 

So, we can conclude that nothing needs to be changed right.

I think we can end this thread.

And if there is a need to buff up giant crossbow, as mentioned by ADCervano, it seems to be better to make a new suggestion thread.


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#16 Icyen3

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Posted 21 March 2015 - 08:12 PM

if buffing giant crossbow seems like a better suggestion, then go make another suggestion thread which supports that, which is really not the main purpose here I believe. if you want balance, nerfing a specific item which complicates things in regards to you camping HOA alde is not the way to go, it seemed obvious from the get-go that was your main purpose anyways.

 

If you really want to balance classes, why not start with the root cause, yet you chose to pinpoint a certain newly obtainable alternative to spectral bows, which you personally have a personal interest to. That being said I believe, personal gain > balance is more pushed on this thread. Thanks

Like I said this thread was not for my personal gain and if it was I'm not stupid enough to make a post like this on this forum account where it would be bloody obvious but I'm done defending myself and thanks jackie and jake for some nice input. 

 

So, we can conclude that nothing needs to be changed right.

I think we can end this thread.

And if there is a need to buff up giant crossbow, as mentioned by ADCervano, it seems to be better to make a new suggestion thread.

thanks for your valuable input by repeating what the person above you said in slightly other words *cough*.


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#17 Luxuri

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Posted 22 March 2015 - 05:26 PM

As per the numbers given earlier in the thread, the crossbow does not seem to be as OP as everyone is suggesting. I had an idea that this item would be popular, sure, however I did not expect people to cry nerf as they have.

 

There is an issue with Loki in that over the years, it has deviated from its original purpose: easy-to-access endgame PvP and WoE. There is nothing wrong with this changing organically overtime, though I feel we should try to retain these roots and return to the "good old days". Whilst the heyday of slightly over-upped valk gear being a-ok to WoE with has passed, I don't see an issue with releasing easy to get mob drops that become the new norm. To counter this, you can see other gear that I have released serves a higher function in PvM, or they include extra flexibility not normally afforded to this "standard" gear, but require work to get them (e.g. Antique gear).


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#18 Icyen3

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 10:49 AM

 

There is an issue with Loki in that over the years, it has deviated from its original purpose: easy-to-access endgame PvP and WoE. 

 

I'm completely fine with you making equipment more easy to access, but by your own logic it doesn't make sense to make it a stalker exclusive weapon and not equipable for snipers which also defeats the purpose of your own "easy-to -access". Especially because in my opinion stalker is the best class and sniper is the worst of the two.


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#19 Luxuri

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 12:38 PM

It doesn't defeat the purpose of easy-to-access gear simply because Snipers also have their own weapon available through the same means. Furthermore, this update - specifically referring to Bio 4 - is a Gravity thing that is rebalanced for Loki. There's no reason to stray too far from the source material when there's no real need to do so.

 

Stalkers have their own balance issues, that are completely separate and unrelated to this bow and their damage output.


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#20 Icyen3

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 02:48 PM

It doesn't defeat the purpose of easy-to-access gear simply because Snipers also have their own weapon available through the same means.

Which weapon are you referring to? Assuming it's giant crossbow, it's a 3 instead of 4 slot and a MvP drop so it's a lot harder to access than the thief crossbow while beeing worse at the same time.


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